The Diva's Division

[Kevin Borg]

Since I've started watching wrestling again I've found I actually enjoy the Diva's division. I think Michelle McCool could very well be the best women's champion I've ever seen; she's athletic and actually able to wrestle. Back when Trish Stratus and Lita were the go to diva wrestlers I always changed the channel because they relied far too much on screaming to try to get their moves over, but right now I watch McCool or Gail Kim and am actually impressed with their athleticism (McCool is using a pretty sweet Styles Clash at the moment). Come to think of it, I think a McCool-Kim match would have been much more entertaining than Triple H-Sheamus.

Anyone else think that, stupid segments aside (Pillow fights, piggy james etc.), the divas division is stronger than in the past?

[Knoxville]

I would've agreed with you until the botch job at Mania. It was pretty fucking bad.

[Woo]

As a huge fan of women's wrestling I would have to totally disagree with you to be honest. At one point the WWE women's roster featured Trish Stratus, Molly Holly, Ivory, Jazz, Jaqueline, Gail Kim, Lita and Victoria. 8 women who were good to great in the ring. Today's WWE women's talent doesn't even come close to that. Don't get me wrong it's not awful and better than it was say in 2000 or even a few years ago, but it should worlds better.

Now maybe I've been spoiled by TNA and Shimmer, but the WWE's output of women's matches it simply woefull. It shouldn't have to be that way either as the talent is there. You mentioned Michelle McCool as bein good, but she is awful compared to Beth Phoenix, Nattie Neidhart Nikita (Katie Lea), Gail Kim herself and above all Serena Deeb (CM Punk's valet). The WWE never push the genuinly great women's wrestlers and opt for the ones who "aren't bad."

It shouldn't have to be that way as there are tons of great women's wrestlers out there, most of them in Shimmer, and as TNA have proved by raiding their roster they are capable of having great matches and in TNA's case the highest rated segments.

[Kevin Borg]

fair point Woo. See, I guess I'm biased in that my memory really only recalls Lita and Trish being pushed, and I absolutely hated the two of them. I feel like Lita relied too heavily on the "high-flying" gimmick that she got from the Hardys, and in my mind Trish stratus is the worst women's wrestler in WWE history; she oversold, overscreamed, her limbs were awkwardly flying everywhere and her facial expressions were a pain to watch. To me she's the epitome of WWE pushing the hot diva regardless of the diva's wrestling ability, or lack thereof. I can't remember any of those other divas you mentioned getting any serious pushes, but that could just be a result of my own ignorance towards the division back then (ignorance that spawned from my hatred of Trish Stratus).

I think the reason why I'm marking out for McCool so much is that her ring presence seems natural; her dropkicks, styles clash, stiff kicks etc. all look like a legitimate repertoire of moves. She looks like an actual wrestler in the ring. I've only seen a few matches by the other women you've mentioned (on Youtube, just now, because I wanted to be a little bit more informed before I responded) and, while I agree that they are all talented, based on what I've seen Michelle seems to have a lot less awkward moments in the ring. This would probably change if I got to see more of them, particularly on Raw or Smackdown (push them instead of Maryese or Kelly Kelly [who shouldn't really be in the ring anyways]), but as is I just feel that Michelle graces a natural presence in the ring that the WWE hasn't had in the past (or, i guess more accurately, hasn't really pushed those who actually had it in the past).

[Woo]

You see I am a huge fan of Trish. She would possibly make my top 20 wrestlers ever list. While she was no Kurt Angle or Bret Hart I always felt her matches were usually okay at worst and sometimes even very good. A few examples I can think off from the top of my head are the NYR and Wrestlemania matches against Mickie James during their excellently booked feud, the hardcore match with Victoria at SSeries 02 and the one against Melina at SSeries a few years later.

Then there was her farewell match with Lita which was hands-down one of the greatest feel-good moments in history in addition to the best exit ever.

Michelle is pretty good in the ring, her match against Melina at The Bash I think it was, was surprisingly good. However she is a block whole for charisma, whereas Trish had tons to spare and was brilliant on the mic. My main resentment of McCool is that there are better women on the roster who could have fantastic matches, but the WWE are simply settling for 'pretty good'.

[MetalBlade]

I don't think Trish was brilliant on the mic. In fact I thought she was shit. Her voice always warbled with nervousness, and I don't she ever looked or sounded comfortable with a mic in here hand.
Her backstage promos and interviews were pretty good though, provided there was someone else was with her to take away the pressure of standing up there alone with a microphone. I will agree that Trish The Dish was a class act in the ring though.

[Woo]

You talking about face Trish, heel trish or both? Her heel run after turning on Jericho at Mania XX had her doing some great promo work.




Of course Jericho does an awesome comeback in the first video, but heel Trish held her own.

[OlympicHero]

I agree with Woo here. The Diva scene in WWE right now is the worst I've seen it for some time. Is it because Finlay no longer works with them to choreograph matches any more? Because something is definitely missing.

When the likes of Trish, Lita, Molly, Jazz and Victoria were feuding with each other, the matches were bearable......some even enjoyable! Nowadays, not one match goes by without a totally blown spot being involved......it's embarrassing to watch.

And what about Gail Kim? She's gone from having one of the hottest feuds in wrestling (with Awesome Kong) to being another member of The Botch Job Squad........WTF!?!

On the subject of Trish's mic skills, I also believe her heel work from 2004 was very good......but as a face? She was awful.

[Woo]

Show me a woman who has been able to do great face promos though.

[OlympicHero]

Miss Elizabeth may have only said like 2 words during the 80's, but she always had me eating out the palm of her hand.....I loved that woman!

[Woo]

I'd say though that they were simpler times and Elizabeth was portrayed as such a classy woman that the fans adored her. In the days where being a female wrestler means you need to dress half naked in photoshoots you can't really replicate that air of innocence that the 90's wrestling had.

And besides as great a face as Liz was, she wasn't exactly a fantastic promoer.